After the disputed results of elections of the mayor of Ulan-Ude “hot spot” became Buryatia. Protests by local supporters of the Communist party suppressed by the police. The scientist albert Razin-immolation in protest against the neglect of the authorities to study the national language of the Republic drew attention to the problems of the Udmurt Republic. “Garbage protests” continue in the Russian North.
Dissatisfaction with the regime of Putin has gone into? As the government repression wakes heartland, attacking the regional network of supporters of Alexei Navalny? Discuss independent political analyst Dmitry Oreshkin, sociologist Igor eidman (Berlin), leader of the regional branch of the Yabloko party in Buryatia Natalia Semenova (Ulan-Ude), the political scientist Mikhail Estrin (Izhevsk, Udmurtia).
Mikhail Sokolov:Despite the fight with Alexei Navalny, and that in the last days 150 searches in 41 cities in one day, despite the trumped-up processes, for example the “Moscow case” can be judged by events in the Buryatia Republic: discontent is spreading gradually over Russia. We’ll talk about that.
Let’s start with the event a week ago, a week I bet what happened on 8 September – victory power as convince other comrades, had all the governors got a majority in the Moscow city Duma, or the victory of the “smart vote” Navalny, the rating of “United Russia” fell, many legislatures, city councils it has lost mandates and even lost the majority. What did we see?
Dmitry Oreshkin: You know the old Jewish joke: and you, Moishe, right, and you.
Mikhail Sokolov: That is, the Bulk of the rights, and Turchak right?
Dmitry Oreshkin: For Turchak clearly, they are interested in the Executive vertical, respectively, gubernatorial elections. They held in all 16 regions where there were elections, their people, so Turchak in his own right when he says that we won with a whistle. But we must bear in mind that of all the 16 people – only three of which were already governors long enough period of time. And all the rest before the election changed the power in order to remove excessive irritation, put new people. Quite rationally, the Russian voter is thinking: maybe these new people will do something, then vote against them?
Mikhail Sokolov: Although with difficulty in some places. Altai is barely stretched.
Dmitry Oreshkin: I always try to be objective numbers to use. If considered not from voters, but from the list, only 21% were “for”. This means that the low turnout, that means low support. But in principle it is sufficient, given that there is no real competition to solve technical problems for the conservation of the vertical of power. In this sense, they can be happy.
As for Moscow, there is obvious success Bulk with the “smart vote”. From my point of view, the main success is that finally realized that it is foolish to ignore the elections, it is foolish not to go to these elections. Despite the fact that everyone understands that these elections are not elections in the sense that what is written in the Constitution, in what the European people understand this process.
Mikhail Sokolov: That is the question the authorities are not solved?
Dmitry Oreshkin: It is not a mechanism of forming the government, but it is a mechanism of communication between power and society. Bulk finally burned in 2018 in an attempt to ignore the presidential election.
Mikhail Sokolov: But in 2014, took revenge then his colleagues, with whom he has a complicated relationship, from “Apple”. Five second places was the “Yabloko”, and it would be a “smart vote”, they would last five years, sat in the Duma.
Dmitry Oreshkin: I think so. I think that’s a positive development. None of the “Yabloko” not posturing, not refused to support Navalny. Gubenko only said that it is not necessary. By the way, still won. Now, of course, will say that they are good, Bulk has nothing to do with it.
I think when will be the next election, the news is that if five years ago everyone understood that in the country one voter, his name is Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, he sits in the Kremlin, accordingly, need to get hold of his political support, then go to the State Duma, become a Federal politician, now begin to still play a role with the voters. That Bulk is felt, and quite correctly used, again suggests that this is the best “political animal” (a purely political term) that we have today in our political zoo.
Bulk gains experience, he finally realized that this mechanism is curve, oblique, which is called election, it is necessary to use correctly. I think the logic of “smart vote” is a reasonable thing. Because the dumb vote is not to go to the polls, it’s just something that needs power, especially in Moscow and other relatively independent and advanced regions.
Most people who don’t like the government, expressing their opinion that these elections do not go, that power is very welcome. Because the less independent-minded voters coming to the stations, the greater the relative role of managed electorate. State employees, pensioners, military personnel, patients of clinics who do not vote, they vote for the chief physician, those who sit in prison, deprived of even the right to vote, which voting right to the prison warden and the other residents of nursing homes, they will always come to the polls, 20% of the expense always will be.
And if they come to independent voters in the amount of 40-50%, the policy here is completely different, here it is necessary to curry favor with voters, something he can promise, somehow, to seduce him and so on. In this sense, I think it’s important that there was some internal change in the attitude of people to election. At the same time, it is necessary to say that it’s a new generation, they don’t have the experience that we have, but they think we’re old fools, they all start, pass through all the mistakes through which we passed, just do it faster because they have more social experience. In particular, sometimes they even listen to what we are talking about. And that’s progress.
Mikhail Sokolov: the Government has appreciated the feat Navalny and sent him to search the police across the country in his headquarters. Computers seized, people arrested account. This is the highest rating of the Kremlin?
Dmitry Oreshkin: High assessment small contribution. Because really thanks to the “smart vote” Navalny becomes the demiurge of the second level, his word is expensive.
Mikhail Sokolov: That is, the second person in the country not Medvedev and Navalny?
Dmitry Oreshkin: In any case, in the electoral sense now, he starts to occupy these positions. Just like in 2013, he was the second politician in Moscow. 28% is not a sheep sneezed. The fact that he was scared – obviously. Because if it does not touch now, in 2021, in his office, virtual or any of the Internet will be scratching at the door a number of politicians who will say: Hey, why I didn’t put in a word? Because the word Navalny, because he is not a demiurge, but in any case influential in certain social circles the player, is expensive. It’s worth thousands, maybe tens of thousands of votes. To neglect this nobody, except Gubenko, can’t.
We have already seen that before the elections all modestly silent, no one protested against the inclusion of the Bulk. I think that itself says a lot. Yes, Navalny has become a major influential political player, so his power should be wet with terrible force.
Mikhail Sokolov: I think Igor has his own view on the situation. Your organization “Forum of free Russia” without any enthusiasm relates to the campaign for the elections, but, nevertheless, judging by the reaction to the election results, the authorities are somehow worried or not?
Igor eidman: of Course, the government is worried. I want to make a remark: “the Forum of free Russia” is not my organization, I just have several times been to their gatherings in Vilnius, more than anything I with them does not bind. I absolutely independent position.
I also thought, like Dmitry Oreshkin, that the “smart vote”, a Bulk active intervention in the electoral process – it was obviously a necessary and positive process. Even here the result is important not how many deputies were elected with the support of the “smart vote”, of course, “United Russia” continues to control and the Moscow city Duma and the administration of the President of the political life in the country. Naturally, therefore, no “smart voting” if the current police of the authoritarian and close approaching totalitarianism regime, nothing is a vote essentially can’t change. But it is a demonstration of the fact that in Russia there is a fairly large community, a community of people who are very negative attitude to the current regime and its main political party, and most importantly, these people can at some time at the call of their leader to organize and to actively intervene in the political process, to confuse, albeit at the local level, at the level of elections of the deputies of the Moscow city Duma, they can really confuse the authorities.
This crazy, disparate, disproportionate reaction of the authorities, who did this, not to pigeonhole, almost immediately began to retaliate against Navalny and his people, it suggests that the situation for the authorities is totally unacceptable. Because existing as it used to be called command and administration, and in fact the police and barrack system, she suggests that someone from the outside of the vertical of power, outside the power hierarchy in General may intervene in the process of formation of political class, political elite, MPs including. Is the item.
Deputies of the Moscow city Duma is the nomenclature of the presidential administration, but it may appoint. And then some troublemaker Bulk fits in this situation, breaks important, already approved purposes, which were to be only ceremonial decorated these elections. Of course, it’s extremely angered the Russian authorities, they immediately resorted to punitive methods of vengeance Navalny for his blatant interference in the prerogatives of this item or the ruling bureaucracy.
Mikhail Sokolov: I think we should now look at the regions, what is happening there. The hottest point was after the election of Buryatia election of the mayor of Ulan-Ude. I would like to address to Natalia Semenova, the party “Yabloko”, the regional office in Buryatia. What happened in the elections of the mayor of Ulan-Ude, whether they were rigged, why such a surge, people take to the streets and their dispersal by the police?
Natalia Semenova: first, all outraged that the election of the mayor was used very dirty technology. The candidate who won was the independent candidate, however he is a member of “United Russia”. After the elections, many citizens did not agree with the results because there were a lot of violations. We have a situation that is not so much dissatisfied, and even people who just happened to be offended by such election, took to the streets with not that protests peacefully gathered in the square and were dispersed. They were dispersed using Riot police, have arrested a Deputy of the National Khural, was arrested some people who participated in rallies.
The media reported different offensive article. First Deputy Prime Minister in Facebook called protesters “devils”. He later apologized via the social network. On the third day of this campaign just threw a smoke bomb, sprayed tear gas into the bus, followed the bus like a bug, these men were arrested. The funny thing is that the newspaper wrote that people arrested who were protesting in the bus, which was parked near the square, they were arrested because they attacked the police, used the police to tear gas.
This was followed by articles in the Newspapers that the protesters wrote a letter to the mayor stating that they are waiting for a certain kind of surprises. Apparently, bombs or something like that, planted in strategic sites, at the station, in different educational institutions and kindergartens. Who wrote it, installed it, but we were not informed. It was signed by the protesters and demanded the re-election of the mayor. It is clear that such on the part of protesters was not.
Mikhail Sokolov: How do you predict whether a continuation of these protests will be to try the same Communists, member of the Federation Council Markhayev and others to organize legal action after that?
Natalia Semenova: Legal action is already appointed. The head of Buryatia through social networks informally approached Mr. Marchaevo, Senator, leader of the Communists about the meeting. Mr. Markhayev this proposal was rejected for the reason that he said that officially, let’s see, then we can talk. I think it’s completely fair. There is not so much a struggle between the Communists, are just people. There were different representatives of the political parties were just people who are unhappy with this. Meetings will be held in the Park “Jubilee”, which is far from the center is unlikely these protests will have any impact.
Mikhail Sokolov: Social some underlying reason here? Some believe that the current Governor was the economic situation in the country is much worse than the former?
Natalia Semenova: most Likely, this background is available. Just savagely cut down, the forest they steal and sell to China. It is also all very exciting. Baikal plundered, looted. Want to build a factory on lake Baikal water bottling is also extremely unpleasant to us. The situation with the Baikal is very sad. The economic situation is deteriorating as Russia, everywhere. The main problem exists in the fact that Mr. Tsydenov, although it is a representative of the titular nation of Buryat, but it’s appointee, who all his life spent in Buryatia. Here he made a big mistake that this election was an attempt to divide the people along ethnic lines. No national problem is not observed.
Mikhail Sokolov: the Fires that burned in Siberia this year, as I understand it, Buryatia is also affected?
Natalia Semenova: Fires in Buryatia is a constant phenomenon, it is granted. The smoke, which this time was from the fires that went here, he was awful, we had managed four days. The majority of people here are very passive. Fire is the theft of the forest, nothing more.
Mikhail Sokolov: We’re talking about this region separately, but the feeling is that it was possible to speak about any individual else in the neighborhood, this sprawling socio-economic. In the national region attempts to push more ethnic groups. Something in this Kingdom bad happens. You can formulate that?
Dmitry Oreshkin: I think it’s quite reminiscent of the Soviet Union in the late 1980s and in the early 1980s, when it matured quite dull incomprehension, hostility to what is done by the Central authorities, but the protest because he has no legal exits.
Mikhail Sokolov: came to the square, stood, and dispersed them.
Dmitry Oreshkin: the Most unpleasant thing is not this, the fact that people came to the square because they understand that elections are fake. In principle, elections should remove this kind of tension. Not like a Governor, the people chose another Governor, maybe he will be better, maybe it will be worse, but this is a normal process. The Federal government on top of looking at people, calling people, and believes that none of his damn business to determine who will command this region. About the same it was in Soviet times, about the same dull protest of people not having a normal mechanism for self-expression in a legitimate constitutional right, because the election, to put it mildly, over-regulated, it results in environmental claims.
I well remember how in the 1980-ies, when people could not yet say that we are tired of your Communist procedure, we are tired, when we obviously lagging behind all European countries and so forth, they protest canalized in a more sustainable direction. The same Baikal, which then suddenly became remarkably significant, the Aral sea was then rapidly rescued. As soon as the Soviet Union collapsed, Uzbekistan went alone his own way, he all the Aral activists strangled at home, about the Aral sea has forgotten for 20 years. Is the sublimation of this, it is clear that people are dissatisfied with the government, but they are still afraid to say that enough is enough, comrades, come down.
Mikhail Sokolov: About the theft they say they are stealing the forest, in China the logs are driven.
Dmitry Oreshkin: And harness. In the Altai region have repeatedly found that a specially set fire to the forest that the field then to grab and to use, sell it. Or a talk that the forest had burned, to cut down the forest and sell it on the side. As mentioned, the people are passive, in fact, the people are not passive, just the people have no lever to influence the situation, because the elections are controlled from the top. The situation is very clear, very predictable. Nothing bad will happen, the vertical collapses, someone planted, someone is scared someone will break an arm or leg.
Mikhail Sokolov: What prospects do you draw sad.
Dmitry Oreshkin: What is. If in Soviet times, in the twilight of the Soviet Union, even elite citizens, it was clear that it is impossible to live that the Soviet model, the Communist model came to a standstill, now heads the situation is the opposite — to live is even possible. They are great, they live much better than in Soviet times. It’s going to be tougher than in Soviet times. Actually, they already are.
Mikhail Sokolov: They can’t think about the future that they, too, can do harder than with the Communists in 1991?
Dmitry Oreshkin: Sure, as long as they control the power resource, but they still control it, everything will be okay, who should die, who should go to jail, the situation will remain fine. In Soviet times the security forces was not enough, roughly speaking, feed, and now they have enough. So I strongly disagree with those who say on the eve of the revolution that tops cannot, bottoms do not want, or Vice versa. The lower classes do not want the lower classes get angry, but it manifests itself in a rather local outbreaks.
Mikhail Sokolov: But all of them more and Ties, and Buryatia, and Moscow, and Ingushetiya, and Moscow, and in Petersburg has managed the municipal elections in many constituencies to win, the same “Apple” and others.
Dmitry Oreshkin: And the glory of God. Because of the current elections, despite their curvature, and of hostility to them, they still work more efficiently than in Soviet times, the government forced them somehow to listen.
Mikhail Sokolov: That is, they listen — Bulk smash on the one hand, and on the other hand some handouts will be possible.
Dmitry Oreshkin: Even in Soviet times, selling pies with cabbage before the election.
Mikhail Sokolov: Natalia told us that the leader of the Communists, he’s a Senator, interestingly, the Governor proposed some negotiations, so will solve the issue.
Dmitry Oreshkin: And will offer some gingerbread, will offer some pies with cabbage. Let’s see how he reacts. I think he probably will try to grow into this very vertical. But the movement began, a movement began in the government side and even more worse for the protesters, because they will rot quite brutally, frankly.
Mikhail Sokolov: Igor, as a sociologist with experience that you will tell about changes of attitudes in society in Russia? I saw a wonderful post in a kind of telegram-channel information dropped in the polls the Public opinion Foundation that supposedly 31% only in the whole of Russia to vote for “United Russia”. That never happens.
Igor eidman: for a year there is such a tendency that Putin’s approval rating begins to decline, he was more active in the same period a year ago immediately after increasing the period of retirement, but then he stabilized somewhat, but at a lower level. All major government institutions, as well their rating began to fall, that is, the reserve, resource 2014, pumped up jingoistic hysteria, he’s obviously exhausted. At least the situation has returned to the days of the so-called belolentochnye revolution, that is, to the 2011-12 year. There is a tendency certain that this situation continues to develop, it is not very convenient, not very pleasant for the authorities.
I have already said, this system is under police strong, but this strength is also its weakness. It can exist only when everything is built, everything goes without a hitch, without a hitch, all obey commands, everything is predictable, no uncertainty, no Amateur and so on. As soon as there is a kind of living life in the barracks, the walls start to shake, and then, as we remember in times of perestroika, collapse. As the Soviet Union could not exist in a democracy and Putin’s regime could not exist in conditions of uncertainty, in terms of bottom-up initiatives, some unrest and so on. Now we see that this process goes on, the erosion of that system, the process of awakening mass discontent and the process of gradual partial loss of control over the situation. An example of the elections to the Moscow city Duma apparent. It goes in two directions is capital, capital’s intelligentsia, the middle class of the capital, on the one hand, on the other hand absolutely start for other reasons, out of the obedience of the provinces. We see in the Buryatia Republic, the Ingushetia Republic and so on. The residents are outraged that they have the economic resources, social resources, high educational status and so on, but there is absolutely no political power, so they are protesting, it is about how the third estate protested, went on the revolution in 1789.
On the other hand the inhabitants of the province, they have another problem and another reason to be dissatisfied with the government is the wildest social stratification and poverty, the absence of any socio-economic prospects, in General, life on the verge of starvation, where people simply survive. So they have their reasons to protest, their reasons to be unhappy with this power and wish to change it. Here is the possible, the hypothetical unification of the middle class of the capital in their discontent with the discontent of the masses of the province, that in this, as in the egg of Koschei, the needle, which can bring the death of this dragon, the Putin regime. If it is isolated, a separate Bulk will be something to stir up in Moscow, separately, the Buryats speak, it may all disappear, so to speak. But if this movement will continue to grow, as it will unite, it will, at least, it is absolutely a serious threat to the existence of this mode, which begins to lose control, to lose its integrity, strength, closeness, which can only prolong his life.
Mikhail Sokolov: I would like to plug in Izhevsk, Mikhail Estrin. The sad event occurred — the self-immolation of the Udmurt scientist albert Razin, who believed that the dead language means dead people, in defense of the Udmurt language, apparently, of national culture. I would like, first, to Express my condolences. Secondly, what after all prompted such a tragic event and what is the reaction in the country at this event?
Michael Estrin: Honestly, as many close to the shock was because it was a public place, in front of the state Council occurred. This man was quite famous in the country, especially among the Udmurt national elite, he was seen as one of the brightest representatives of his people. It’s hard to say what was the trigger for this action. The situation with language, with the development of national consistently getting worse, but not because of some deliberate action by annihilation, but rather it is a General trend rather sad.
May overlap that from 2017 in Udmurtia in the highest official posts of the people that could hardly display it on the map the first time. A situation where in old bottles poured new wine of known conflict that occurs. I, unfortunately, was not familiar with Razin, I’m not very competent deep to comment on these things, it is associated with this particular tragedy, but I can say that there is an official national policy, and there is live folk movement, they are long gone, live your life. The head of Udmurtia Brechalov, who came to Udmurtia takes the oath in the Udmurt language, as written in Wikipedia, is teaching the Udmurt language, but it’s all some kind of external formal, not deep stuff, and on the deep stage there is degradation of this sphere.
Mikhail Sokolov: Now the socio-economic situation in your region, you would be able to evaluate it, what is it? If there is a national factor such irritation, and is there any other socio-economic?
Michael Estrin: It is combined. The national factor does not play an important role, we have no sharp ethnic conflicts. At some point, I think he might be the additive ingredient is quite important in some protest actions. With regard to the socio-economic situation, it is difficult, because a very diverse industry and different feel. Traditionally, the military-industrial complex of the Udmurt Republic is highly developed, it depends on the state of the economy. He in recent years I felt well, because there was a large program for re-equipment, modernization of this sector. Many large enterprises of the Udmurt Republic, who managed to survive the crisis of 1990-ies — beginning of 2000-x, they feel good. But now these programs, investments in this sector are reduced. As it is, you need to watch. Overall, in my opinion, is a growing irritation. You have the speakers said that one of the motives of frustration with the whole concept of Putinism, of course, do not think people in these categories, but nevertheless, you can call the pension reform, in fact it is just an administrative robbery because reform does not look right, in my opinion. Acute social conflicts and socio-economic conflicts in the Udmurt Republic at the moment, no.
Mikhail Sokolov: you have No sense that the power went out for some reason, on this field the national and started to make some annoying actions? Somewhere abolished the compulsory study of the titular languages in Bashkortostan, Tatarstan this caused irritation of the national elite. In the Udmurt Republic is also apparent excitement if it comes to the fact that one of the prominent scholars and enthusiasts commits such an act in the spirit of a suicidal protest. Finally, first, like anecdotal case, and if you think, for some reason, reopen old wounds.
Remember, you will have to stand on the Ugra river, as a Russian victory, to be paid in the calendar of memorable dates. Clearly, in Tatarstan, it did not like, where I like to associate with the legacy of the Kazan khanate. Why people who are in power, it is seriously starting to push in a Patriotic vein, but they did not propose to amend the calendar of military glory a celebration of the defeat of Novgorod at the Shelon, or the same pogrom of Novgorod by Ivan IV. Here mind seems to be enough, and Ugra and relations with the Tatars somehow it is possible to focus. It turns out, any other irritant carried on a public field.
Dmitry Oreshkin: I think it’s quite logical consequence of the priorities that the vertical of power. They also have social experience, they understand that the situation is indeed reminiscent of that which was in 1970-80-ies. By the way, people of my generation remember when every few months in Moscow there were cases of self-immolation. This means that people already came to a final wall, beyond which they see nothing. It is impossible to change this situation, and this situation is perceived as oppressive, then a man picks up a can of gasoline and burns himself. The same was done in China. Aware of this situation, current vertical wants to stop it.
One of the nightmares, strictly speaking, the two main nightmare this vertical, one is attempting to solve the accumulated evidence of inefficiency vertically as economic models, as economic models, as a management system. To solve this using some kind of humanization, democratization, liberalization of the regime for them is a dead end, because on this way went to Gorbachev, and this led, from their point of view, to the collapse of power.
Mikhail Sokolov: Just to share I have to, I’m sorry, resources.
Dmitry Oreshkin: They just consider the country as the property. To share a property nobody wanted. Accordingly, they believe Gorbachev is losing, they will not do it, on the contrary, I think a much more likely scenario is that they will tighten the screws further. Gorbachev tried to alleviate the situation, got the disintegration. Decay is for them a nightmare. In this regard, they are very afraid of what is called national movements. Hence the attempt of Russification.
Mikhail Sokolov: That’s gasoline to the fire shed.
Dmitry Oreshkin: From their point of view no, they believe that it is necessary to suppress the system and everything will be fine, as in China. Us not once or twice said that China is a great example, he’s successful, economically and so on. About the way they will act. Russification under pressure, they believe it is correct. For example, they have a long, hard and carefully prepared the idea with the closing of the Treaty on distribution of powers between the Kremlin and the Kazan Kremlin in Moscow, which has made the speech.
Now they’re trying to keep national sentiments and replace such Russification of ideas, trying to create a new identification. As in Soviet times, we were told about a new historical community of people the Soviet people, new without the disadvantages of the capitalist past of the Soviet people, now want to educate the Russian people, which on the one hand, the multinational and on the other hand lives in peace and friendship, says in Russian.
Mikhail Sokolov: Though not for the Caucasus, where Putin has visited, said he’s not wishy-washy, and Caucasians come in handy in wars somewhere in Syria. Interesting approach. So them in the eye and said that they are cannon fodder for the Middle East.
Dmitry Oreshkin: It’s your wording, but on the contrary he said that the real warriors, knights and so on. It is very convenient when you have two dozen, three dozen, five dozen young men from Chechnya where-that to leave, they were gone, and nobody asks where they have gone. In Russia this does not work, the Pskov paratroopers, Buryat tankers, they float stories on the network and so on. In Chechnya, this does not pop up. Therefore, the Caucasus is the support of Vladimir Putin, speaking, and electoral.
Mikhail Sokolov: Sultanates, what you described many times.
Dmitry Oreshkin: Electoral sultanates. If Moscow is something seriously messed up, we’ll see here of the “wild division”, Cossacks with whips, but this will be not the Kuban and don Cossacks, and most likely Caucasian.
Mikhail Sokolov: do Not scare us Kadyrov.
Dmitry Oreshkin: It is a logical consequence of such a system of priorities. Going back to your question, the national movement, of course, we have to pin down, it is necessary to strangle it.
Mikhail Sokolov: Igor, you are in Europe, in Berlin, see Europe, from Moscow to Ulan-Ude police beating people up and dragging them to paddy wagons, what is the impression?
Igor eidman: he Sure can. In General the German TV channels when all these had terrible acceleration, it’s all show, it was on the news, it was in the most famous Newspapers. Of course, the impression is quite eerie, with one hand. On the other hand any practical effect it has. Because German society has become accustomed to the fact that Russia sits in the Kremlin dictator is happening in Russia, hell knows what, people killed, beaten and so on. But this must somehow be tolerated and it is necessary to live somehow, because otherwise the war. Most Germans, of course, for whatever reasons, with such historical memory is terrible, afraid of war and conflicts.
Mikhail Sokolov: “to Trade with cannibals”. Let us now look to see whether Russia is actually Russia. The West sees, but can not do anything. And Russia sees what is happening in Russia?
Mikhail Sokolov:
In Internet we have chosen, in the first place brought protests against landfills, 65%, moreover the post-election Buryatia know 20% is almost nothing don’t know 11% don’t know anything about the Udmurt Republic. By the way, I think this event is terrible, the self-immolation, apparently just blocked all the information on TV and so on.
Dmitry Oreshkin: It’s fine. We can analyze what we know.
Mikhail Sokolov: They still focused on the TV.
Dmitry Oreshkin: Of Course. The Internet is also a lot of people who work about the same as Mikhail Leontev and Vladimir Solovev. If you have actual material that where something happened, someone was killed or someone was arrested, you are unable to discuss this topic, because you have no texture. Incidentally, in that book, which you have on the table is how time about it and written as depriving people or public opinion is deprived of the bread of the facts, instead they give an obviously falsified psevdofakty, fake facts about the unprecedented industry growth.
Mikhail Sokolov: Lie it is a lie.
Dmitry Oreshkin: If you do not have access to the invoice, you can not correctly interpret the situation. So people discuss what they are given as information menu. About America, its machinations all know someone believes someone does not believe, but about the fact that there has been an act of self-immolation in the Udmurt Republic, the majority does not know. This is the power of those who control the information process. This is again the Soviet model, we are gradually getting closer. Now we are trying to compress from the point of view of the Internet, disable foreign online, make your national Internet. In fact it is the jammers, as in Soviet times. People listen to bi-Bi-si and “Voice of America” and Radio Liberty not because they liked the interpretation of the facts, but because these sources gave the facts they were given information, something that could not be obtained in the Soviet press and Soviet television. And now the same thing. But still most of the anyway TV looks, that’s where it reads the information agenda. The government understands this, which is why maximum attention is paid to the control of television. Again, this is due to the fact that a sufficient amount of money in the country, enough money to pay Dmitry Kiselev, and Vladimir Solovyov.
Mikhail Sokolov: And most importantly security forces. Grigory Yavlinsky believes that Putin’s system is not eternal, because the internal defects will allow it to maintain effective control over political and economic life. The hero of your books, Joseph Stalin maintained effective control within 30 years, almost successfully, and so on. Something has changed with this? The answer is in a thick book to find?
Dmitry Oreshkin: It Is Possible. I think the situation has changed significantly, because the Soviet people were generally derived specifically social phenomenon which is thought in the categories of the same false information that drew from the Newspapers, and now a person has alternative sources, that is why the current regime will not last three generations and will last approximately one generation, about 25-30 years old. At the same time expect that it’s going to collapse, I think, no reason not. While there is money in order to pay the right people, regional elites, power elites, media elites, the situation will be under control. So, I think so too nervous upper classes in the near future is not going to. If necessary, roll out to the street Resguardo, Regardie impose order, as in Sinjiang Uygur Autonomous region.
Mikhail Sokolov: Again intimidated?
Dmitry Oreshkin: the Economy will not grow to be stagnant, is lagging behind the more progressive regimes, so what?
Mikhail Sokolov: the Stalinist regime then, as the leader died, he changed.
Dmitry Oreshkin: it always happens. Once such a mode is created, a generation is confusion, if we take Ivan the Great, a generation after Stalin was restructuring. In the Golden Horde in a few generations after Genghis Khan was a Great zamyatnya.
Mikhail Sokolov: And everything fell apart.
Dmitry Oreshkin: In the end the Golden Horde collapsed, and the Soviet Union also collapsed. I would not want that to happen to my country, which is called the Russian Federation, but the interests of existing elites just so focused that they need to suppress the protest, they do not need to establish a dialogue with the population, and to plug this population. They need to change the power through elections, and to discredit the electoral system. They, consciously or unconsciously, are these the right course to victory, which our country will somehow come to a crisis.
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