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“He’s acting strange.” Biologist about the features of coronavirus.

"Он ведет себя необычно". Биолог об особенностях коронавируса.

Sonya Pitch – Czech molecular geneticist and virologist, head of the private lab Tilia Laboratoriesthat diagnosed one of the first in the country cases of coronavirus. And she discovered the disease in people that were not in the “risk countries” and did not communicate with returned from there. This discovery forced the Czech government to change policy analysis and to start testing in public laboratories not only come from countries with a large number of patients and their social circle. Perhaps because of this epidemic in the Czech Republic is developing slower than in most other countries.

In mid-March, Sonya has developed a new Pitch, as she claims, more accurate and cheaper testing Protocol for SARS-CоV-2 and offers it free to all interested medical institutions. It already uses the Czech Academy of Sciences and laboratories in many countries.

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On Sunday, the correspondent of Radio Liberty took Sony Pitch interview. On Monday, when the chat text is still in editing, some Internet sites connected with Russian propaganda influence, it was reported that the Pitch in the conversation with the Slovak TV station TA3 allegedly declared that SARS-CоV-2 invented in laboratories in the United States and the American government is trying to hide it, forcing American scientists to lie about the virus. In the conversation referenced by these sites, the Pitch does not say anything like.

We had to postpone the publication, and again to contact the lady Pitch, to clarify the situation. Here is her response:

“I will never, under no circumstances and on no occasion never said or wrote that the origin and spread of the virus has any, even the smallest, the attitude of the United States. I also never said that the US is in some way trying to hide, censor or distort information about this virus. About the United States in connection with the virus SARS-CoV-2 I did not mention”.

At the same time, according to Pitch, it is possible that this virus has an artificial origin. Why is this virus similar to other coronaviruses, than its testing methodology is different from other how to live during a pandemic, read her interview with a correspondent of Radio Liberty.

– What are the different types of tests for coronavirus and how do they differ?

– There are two fundamentally different kinds of tests. One PCR (use the PCR. – RS) based on the direct detection of RNA viruses, and this is exactly the test that should be applied when testing the population to find the carriers of the virus and to stop the epidemic. Another type of test is based on finding antibodies to the virus, it is used when people are recovering or, at least, the disease has already begun.

– Now appear regularly news on new tests that show the result after 5 minutes, 20 minutes, half an hour. It tests for antibodies?

Is the so – called rapid tests, and they are based on finding antibodies. They, unfortunately, are not suitable for the diagnosis of asymptomatic patients and those who had been infected only recently, because they have not yet developed antibodies to the virus. The rapid test can be false negative up to that time, as the body will have antibodies. Its effectiveness depends on the condition of human immune system and how it copes with the production of antibodies. If the patient undergoes some form of immunotherapy, or he just has a weakened immune system, then the test may be ineffective. Rapid tests can be a cheap and good way of detecting infection, but they measure the body’s response to the already developed disease, not suitable for early diagnosis and diagnosing people who do not get sick themselves, but are carriers of the infection.

"Он ведет себя необычно". Биолог об особенностях коронавируса.

– What about a day after infection is already possible to use rapid tests?

– Serological window period (the period from infection to appearance of antibodies) can take different times, and for this virus yet we still don’t know for sure, besides it depends on the immune status of a particular person. So the period in which the rapid tests do not show anything, can last 2 or even 3 weeks. And maybe a week. But in any case not hours, but days or weeks.

You are in the laboratory using a test for antibodies or PCR?

– We use a PCR test based on the proof of the presence of virus RNA in the biological material.

– How long to wait for his results?

One of the patient for about 4-5 hours. Work with the test carried out in several stages. But when you have to simultaneously process 100 tests, it is, accordingly, takes more time and the result we announce the following day.

Protocol that you invented and produces results faster than conventional PCR?

No, because it is based on a standard Protocol, it does not differ from it at the time. But it is more accurate and requires fewer chemicals and uses less equipment. In accordance with the Protocol of the CDC (Center for control and prevention of diseases of the United States. – MS)to identify the virus, you need to find three different segment code. We reworked the Protocol, he is now focused on another part of the virus code to identify it is sufficient to find only one segment. So instead of three vials to me, only one instead of three positions in the analyzer I, only one instead of three doses of reagents is enough for me one. I save the reagents, save for the slots in the analyzer and can therefore handle more tests at the same time. So I can invest in the analyzer tests a three times greater number of patients than before.

– What do you think about pooling (analysis of tests from a few people at a time), which is recommended, for example, Israeli doctors?

– Pulling is an excellent method, widely used in medicine. It applies, for example, in blood transfusion, where blood is tested for transfusion in the presence of different viruses, so it’s not a new method. We use tested simultaneously samples up to 10 patients. At the beginning of the epidemic, when many tests are negative, it saves a lot of time and reagents. So I warmly recommend all laboratories to engage in pooling, because of these pools will be negative and those patients can be immediately deleted, and to return patients to only those pools where the result is positive.

– Why are you testing on a different segment of the genetic code, than the CDC? What this segment is different and why is it so important?

– Apparently, the virus SARS-CoV-2 great ability to mutate. This is indicated by the fact that, obviously, there are confirmed cases of re-infecting already ill people. Under mutation can change the genome, the detection of which target the initial test. As our test is focused on a region of the genome that are not affected by the mutations. At least on the big experience that we have with other viruses, we have not experienced to this area of the virus could dramatically change. Therefore, the probability of false negative results due to changes in the genetic code are much smaller. I hope our test will be stable regardless of how the virus will mutate.

"Он ведет себя необычно". Биолог об особенностях коронавируса.

Sonya Pitch

– Frequent mutations of the virus complicate the development of an effective vaccine?

Unfortunately, the vaccine is really bad news. It depends on the epitope, that is, a protein of this virus was chosen as targets people who develop the vaccine. But because the virus changes, so to speak, coat, shell, the protein may change, and the vaccine will no longer be effective. Can happen what is happening now with the flu when a strain that appears this year is somewhat different from the strain last year. It seems that the new coronavirus mutates pretty quickly. What is now being developed, may after some time turn out to be ineffective.

– It turns out that “herd immunity” is also not be? You can get sick, get well and get sick again?

– Yes, it is. The virus mutates and changes its “coat”. If I get a virus in, so to speak, a blue coat and recover, because I will develop immunity to it, then this virus will come to me in a red cloak, my body will take it for another virus will have to develop immunity to him. Apparently, this is one of the most unpleasant properties of this virus.

The ability of this virus to mutate – the same as that of flu above or below?

– We have too little time to know him, so I can’t answer this question.

– What makes this virus different from a “regular” of coronaviruses, which cause only a common cold?

– I think, first of all noncoding regulatory region (part of the genetic code, which is not directly responsible for protein synthesis. – RS). It has gene sequences that differ from sequences in the regulatory region of the coronavirus that lives on bats, despite the fact that the “body” of the virus, the structural genes are the same as the virus of bats. This new virus human regulatory region as if slightly modified, which may be due to its very high ability to reproduction that we observed. Due to the fact that it so quickly multiplies, it is so contagious. The same is probably tied to its high ability to mutate very quickly appear the strains that we haven’t seen before. For fission and production of virions RNA-viruses need an enzyme called RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, which has no “error checking”: it does not pay attention to what makes incorrect copies. And the faster the virus replicates, the greater the likelihood of errors in the copies. Because of this, we see mutations in structural genes. I think that the regulatory scope of this coronavirus causes him to quickly reproduce what we do not see conventional coronaviruses. Perhaps because of this, the virus, unlike normal coronavirus, is not just caused us difficulties, but also causes serious harm.

– A couple of weeks ago you said it is possible that this virus may be of artificial origin. Indian scientists at the beginning of the epidemic, said the same thing. But a few days ago published an article by American scientists, which States that an artificial origin of the virus completely eliminated. You read this article? She persuaded?

– This article was published in the very authoritative journal Nature Medicine. It is undoubtedly a very well and carefully written. However, it is entirely devoted to the structural genes of this virus and never mentions its regulatory region. Indian scientists, by the way, found structures similar to the structure of HIV, just as the structural parts of the virus – is this true, I can not take it. But anyway, an article in Nature Medicine generally does not consider regulatory region of this coronavirus, and it seems to me that the change in the genetic code of this virus is located in this regulatory region.

"Он ведет себя необычно". Биолог об особенностях коронавируса.

– So you still think that this virus may have an artificial origin?

– I believe that this can not be excluded. He behaves very unusually. In the world there are a finite number of viruses that infect people. We usually can symptoms guess about which virus causes it. Of course, not 100%, but we can say: if the symptoms look like this, then it is likely some of the influenza viruses, when diarrhea is another type of the virus when the rash we are looking for the herpes viruses. So when we know that the disease is caused by coronavirus, it will be a certain current. But this coronavirus is a very different picture, it’s like a new type of disease.

When the clinical picture of the virus is so different from other viruses of the same type, it is at least strange. As for his genetic code – I have devoted many years to molecular biology and genetics, have been cloning and used different parts of the virus genetic engineering is a very common practice. When I saw this sequence (regulatory region), I immediately thought she didn’t look very natural. If we spoke only of structural genes, I would not have thought that this virus is something wrong. But you need to look at the whole genome, not excluding from consideration other parts, and perhaps there we will find the answer. But that’s just my opinion, we need more people analyzed this virus. The test Protocol which we offer, is aimed at this regulatory region. Let those who are doing the tests, look at it and tell what they think about it.

– The virus does not behave either as an ordinary coronaviruses, like SARS no?

– It is, of course, more like SARSthan conventional coronaviruses, because coronaviruses cause you have a runny nose or sore throat, you walk a few days and recover. For the virus, SARS-CoV-2, this does not seem. SARS joined us for a year and disappeared. This virus, thanks to his big mutagenicity, I fear, will remain with us for a long time.

– What are we to do? What are the most promising ways to deal with it?

Those, who are now developing a vaccine, will surely try to do so, to act against as many known variants of this virus. If we get widely to vaccinate the population and destroy most of his options can be, we will win. But if, as I assume, the problem lies in the regulatory area, to defeat the virus can cut down this regulatory region. If we knock out the virus will die. So maybe in the end we have to resort to gene therapy, some DNA-vaccines or something like that – a molecular and not immunological.

"Он ведет себя необычно". Биолог об особенностях коронавируса.

Sonya Pitch

– These vaccines already exist?

– They still only experimenting. This is a new thing, but maybe this virus will cause rapid development of this field of medicine.

– What do you think about the theory that this virus over time as a result of mutations will become less dangerous and eventually may even turn to the same harmless virus, like the coronaviruses, which cause common cold and runny nose?

– It would be great, but since it has a high mutational potential, some mutations can be less dangerous, but others are more biologically active. May develop in any direction. I would, of course, wanted him dead and gone.

– I’ve seen the hypothesis that, because we isolate the worst cases, the virus causing them may not spread further, and spread those that cause disease with mild symptoms or even proceeding quickly.

– Yes, with less deleterious mutations the organism may be able to coexist, they will be included in the pool of ordinary colds coronaviruses, and some strains will stay with us forever. But it would be great if we managed to win even these strains and the virus completely disappeared.

– Why is this virus almost never hurts the children?

– I have a theory. Don’t know whether it is true or not, but to me it seems logical. There is a phenomenon in Virology is called superinfection exclusion. When a cell is infected with a particular group, and the virus is relatively harmless to the body, more dangerous viruses from the same group in the cage to penetrate can no longer. The virus that got there first, “closes the door” of the cell and tells the other: “Here is already occupied, you can’t come”. So if the cell takes any harmless causes the common cold coronavirus, which children are always full Airways – so the children are always flowing snot – SARS-CоV-2 even, so to speak, will not scratch, because she’s busy. I think this could be true, because it is not described any case of severe disease development in young children and not one death. The children are constantly sick, so it is unlikely caused by some special immunity. This phenomenon, the exclusion of superinfection, described, for example, of low pathogenic arenaviruses. It is very rare, but perhaps in this case, we it and see.

– There was news of the first dead child under one year old, who was discovered coronavirus. IN THE UNITED STATES. However, it is not clear whether the coronavirus something to do with the death of this child, or he died for a different reason.

– I’ll have to see, but even then it would be the first case, despite the fact that children in the world a huge amount. Some ultra-efficient protection of children have, and it is certainly not their immunity, because the immunity they have built, and they are constantly sick.

American epidemiologist Ralph Baric suggested: it is possible, all coronaviruses, including common colds, can be fatal to an adult, if he catch them first. But since we all suffer from them in early childhood, the generated immunity, and in adulthood the disease is already quite soft. What do you think?

Maybe. But we know that viruses living in the mucous membranes and does not enter the bloodstream, which include the usual coronavirus, infect the upper respiratory tract or the intestine, as in humans and in animals. Antibodies to these viruses are produced in the blood: increases the number of B-lymphocytes, which produce antibodies. When we are dealing with a virus that lives in the mucous, this antibody IgA, and the immunity of mucous membranes is very weak. The existence of B-lymphocytes, which for many years he remembered his meeting with the coronavirus of mucous membranes, seems to me implausible. Normal coronaviruses do not cause strong immune response because, firstly, they are not immunogenic, and second, live on mucous membranes. When the virus spreads in the blood, B-lymphocytes encounter him directly. And mucous the virus is far from them. Therefore, against such diseases we require boosters.

"Он ведет себя необычно". Биолог об особенностях коронавируса.

– That the current situation should governments be doing?

– As this is a completely new disease, about which we know virtually nothing, it must first be tested to understand where the virus appears and how it spreads. You need to understand how it works. I see that there is a significant proportion of people who have a very high concentration of virus in the upper respiratory tract and any symptoms. That’s great news. Many people now under the tree of bad news, it seems that the coronavirus is some kind of deadly disease. Don’t think you need to let people know that many people with a positive diagnosis can easily tolerate the infection and they have only mild symptoms or even none at all. It is necessary to collect as much data as possible, everything is changing very quickly right before our eyes. For example, initially we did not expect that this virus will mutate, and now we see that it can. We always learn about something new. I think it is very important that the Czech government has allowed to perform tests for coronavirus maximum laboratories that are able to do it. First testing laboratories were not enough, and if it remained, it would be a big mistake. Thanks to the government for what it has allowed us to test and collect data, because this data is extremely important.

– Is it right to impose a quarantine or, as some say, is too much?

– Quarantine, of course, not superfluous. It serves to limit the spread of the virus among the population. But this should go hand in hand with the ability to effectively test, so we did not miss people who have no symptoms, but they spread the virus. In the beginning, quarantine was just that isolated patients with clinical signs: shortness of breath, chest pain, fever, and those with whom they communicated. But it turned out that some people without symptoms have the virus, so you have to enter quarantine for everyone. Quarantine is one of the most effective available measures to fight epidemics. To isolate the nidus of the virus is the best chance to beat him. Remarkably, impose quarantine measures, although over time they need to change and possibly weaken. For example, it makes no sense to keep in quarantine the uninfected, but can be detected only through testing. Says the head of the who, to test, test and test. There is no other way. To be able to let go of healthy people to work, because the state could not long exist, when all sit at home and not working.

– How to behave like normal people? Do they need to wear masks? Disposable gloves?

Mask to wear, no doubt, be at least out of consideration for others. When we speak, we are flying tiny droplets, and if we are infected, then each drop is covered with many viruses. If I’m in the mask, it will hold at least the largest of these droplets. Through personal contact mask is absolutely essential that people do not accidentally infect those with whom he communicates. As for the respirators, they should be those who is on the first line of danger: doctors, firefighters, police officers, people who work in shops at the box office – those without whom society cannot function. A more reliable means of protection must be them. But ordinary people should not go outside without a mask, in order not to jeopardize others.

– Shawls, scarves, buffs suit instead of a mask?

– It’s better than nothing. Do all that stop at least the large droplets that fly out at us from a mouth when talking.

– How to behave when he needs to touch something in a public place? Elevator buttons, door knobs, anything in the store?

As usual. Just not enough hands such things as, for example, bread without packaging. And when you get home, thoroughly wash hands with soap or disinfectant – and normal. No need to panic and lose his head.

"Он ведет себя необычно". Биолог об особенностях коронавируса.

– They say that people are constantly touching the face: nose, lips… It’s not dangerous if people touch something on the street, and then the same hand will scratch my nose?

– To touch the face is a common bad habit. You need to mentally tie the hands to the body and not to touch the face because the mouth, nose and eyes – the gateway for the virus. Some, for example, constantly touching your face with your hands when you read. Do not touch!

– Some suggest to allocate one hand to touch things on the street or store, and another to scratch where it itches. It makes sense, or is it already too?

(Laughter.) Just do not touch your face. If you really want something to scratch, scratched sleeve. Need to get together and to minimize the feeling of hands yourself and others. At least until you wash.

– What is your opinion on the debate about whether to take or not to take nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory type of ibuprofen and aspirin, which seems to suppress the immune system? Conversely, regarding the use of Immunostimulants?

– I’m a “lab rat” and not a clinical doctor, so I’m not an expert. But we know that those who die from this disease, find fibrosis of the lung tissue. This is a consequence of excessive immune response to the pathogen, when the body tries to repair the light, and the result is thin fabric, which serves to exchange oxygen with blood, becoming dense and impenetrable, then lungs do not cope with the work, and because of this, the problem starts with the heart. Therefore, some small, cautious immunomodulation would be appropriate. But we have very little experience with this disease. We need constantly to gather information, we still don’t know what helps and what Vice versa. But in any case, I’m not an expert and can’t give recommendations. My specialty molecules, and this is a question for immunologists.

"Он ведет себя необычно". Биолог об особенностях коронавируса.

– What do you think about the hypothesis that the scale and speed of the epidemic in different countries depend on whether there is compulsory vaccination against tuberculosis, BCG?

– The tubercle Bacillus – an intracellular pathogen, and therefore, in order to win, we need cell-mediated immunity. So it’s not necessarily absolutely nonsense. But now there are many such theories, all of them I didn’t, and I don’t have on this account any informed opinion.

– How, in your opinion, today in the Czech Republic more infected than the official statistics show?

– Our laboratory is mainly engaged in testing those who have no direct indications for testing: high temperature, cough and so on, but we help hospitals and test and patients with symptoms. Our own data it turns out that among those who apply to us generally without symptoms, 5% of those infected. Official data published before the mass test, was probably underestimated because they only tested those who have symptoms. So the real number should be higher. I would add to the official numbers of approximately 5%.

Some patients have more interest and not, for example, 10 times?

– No, I don’t think 10 times.

– Does the severity of the disease from how the person was infected: airborne droplets, through the respiratory tract or contact?

This infection is transmitted mainly by airborne droplets, so it depends mainly on how much an infected person who infects you. If his body is already a lot of viruses, it will pass through a drop more virus to you. But if someone is very sick he blew his nose into a handkerchief, he left snot on the arm, he reached for the door knob, then she took you and this hand scratched his nose is also quite an effective way to get infected.

– Can we expect the decline of the epidemic in the summer when it gets warmer?

I do not know. The epidemic has affected countries with a hot climate, you need to see how it will develop there. In principle, respiratory infections really subject to seasonal fluctuations, and it would be great if in the summer the epidemic began to decline, but with this virus we have faced for the first time, and we don’t know how it will behave.

– How long, in your opinion, can it last? What should we prepare?

Epidemic respiratory disease lasts for weeks, months. This is usually 2-3 months. If the virus will mutate greatly, it will continue longer. We’ll see.

– That is, by may it’s definitely not the end?

– If I were a fortune teller with a crystal ball, I would have said to you for sure. Maybe in may she will still continue and will end in the summer. Maybe this virus will now be with us always.

– You want to say something to readers and listeners from themselves?

– Definitely want. Despite the fact that the virus mutates, and it’s not the best news, I want to say all readers that the coronavirus – not a death sentence. Most people infected with the virus carries it is quite normal. Many would not even know that they have it, if not for the tests. It seems to me most important to people was the most calm, no one was nervous and not rushed. Follow the rules of quarantine, wearing masks in order not to infect others and try to live a normal life as possible now. We need to wait, nothing else we do. Keep a positive attitude, sense of humor, and hopefully in the summer we’ll get out of this, and it will remain only in the memories and never to be repeated. All I want, – said in an interview with Radio Liberty, the Czech virologist Sonya Pitch.

© 2020, paradox. All rights reserved.

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